#1 2005-01-18 10:28:24

msnevil

Member

Registered: 2005-01-03

Posts: 79

In heterosexual porn,

you see 10x male orgasms as female orgasms. why is this?

This sites Art, so it doesn't count.

Bishop Of Bath & Wells

Member

From: United Kingdom

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 530

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Because the adult industry is still overwhelmingly run by middle-aged American males, all of whom grew up with a particularly dreadful brand of 1970's & 1980's porn which regarded its women with nothing short of utter contempt, even derision. Female orgasms became an even more taboo subject matter which nobody - until Abby Winters and this site - wished to challenge.

By the way, I'd say the ratio is far more like 1000x more male orgasms to female.

Bish

---

"Today is the beginning of whatever comes next. Stop running, confront, and conquer!"

Thing

Member

Registered: 2005-01-15

Posts: 11

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I beg to differ on 1970s porn - there was no contempt for stars like Annette Haven, Bridgette Monet or Desiree Cousteau, some of whom were actually quite acceptable and respected actresses in their own right, who hardly ever protrayed cum-soaked sluts waiting for a man, any man. I'll grant you 1980s porn (the bottle-blond/big hair/fake-tits explosion), and everything after that.

Last edited by Thing (2005-01-18 23:10:49)

Thing

Member

Registered: 2005-01-15

Posts: 11

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Something awful I saw recently: a video from one of those MILF sites. where a 'mature' woman (everything over 35 is mature in porn, I think) was 'pleased' by a young guy (the usual mindless pounding), while being filmed by another guy.

She had quite a violent and sudden orgasm (all the tell-tale signs were there, at least), and the guy fucking her actually jumped back and off the bed, in awe. The camera guy lost focus and didn't know what to do anymore. Both of them obviously had no idea what the hell happened. They stood around, giggling, laughing at her (the woman was still riding out the orgasm, twitching, and a bit selfconscious about the upheaval) - discussing what to do, until they finally asked: "Can we continue now?"

Shameful.

Bishop Of Bath & Wells

Member

From: United Kingdom

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 530

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Something awful I saw recently: a video from one of those MILF sites. where a 'mature' woman (everything over 35 is mature in porn, I think) was 'pleased' by a young guy (the usual mindless pounding), while being filmed by another guy.

She had quite a violent and sudden orgasm (all the tell-tale signs were there, at least), and the guy fucking her actually jumped back and off the bed, in awe. The camera guy lost focus and didn't know what to do anymore. Both of them obviously had no idea what the hell happened. They stood around, giggling, laughing at her (the woman was still riding out the orgasm, twitching, and a bit selfconscious about the upheaval) - discussing what to do, until they finally asked: "Can we continue now?"

Shameful.

That sums it up in a nutshell, really. I genuinely believe that most of the guys involved in these type of websites (and there are thousands of the hateful things out there) have absolutely no idea how to bring a female to an orgasm, and wouldn't be inclined to even if they could. Idiots.

Sorry to sound a little bitter, but the manner in which supposedly 'adult' sites choose to portray and treat their female subjects has always been a real sore point with me. Sites like the one you just mentioned make me want to put my fist through the screen.

Bish

---

"Today is the beginning of whatever comes next. Stop running, confront, and conquer!"

msnevil

Member

Registered: 2005-01-03

Posts: 79

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Ok. In the 1970's, the female porn stars would sometimes have orgasms. The trend was new and they "farked" just to fark. Granted most of them had it during intercourse. And the foreplay consisted of undressing and stimulating the guy to erection. But it was occasionly there.

And I agree with Bish and thing that porn in the 1980's became "acting" and silicone. "Fantasy" not reality became norm. And the rest is history.

Then and now, "documentery" or self help tapes was the only time a woman would masturbate or be stimulated by her partner until orgasming. (excluding the web.)

So frequently lesbian video's Fake "orgasms" while acting like men with thier artificial dildo's. Even going so far as to duplicate the "plant the seed" on face\body scenerio. And if they orgasm its a act during a "runner dildo" scene.

Heck, I really don't know what goes on between "true" lesbians. When they mate.

While Bish is right that it is demeaning to woman.

Why is routine "heterosexual" porn so populer with most men? (And then they accuse you of being "gay" for asking. )

Bishop Of Bath & Wells

Member

From: United Kingdom

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 530

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Why is routine "heterosexual" porn so populer with most men? (And then they accuse you of being "gay" for asking. )

Because, before the advent of sites such as Beautiful Agony, I Shot Myself, and of course Abby Winters, there were really no other alternatives to speak of. So guys just had to basically plump for whatever was on offer, no matter how grim much of it was.

Interestingly, all three of the sites I just listed have a heavy female influence behind the scenes.

Bish

---

"Today is the beginning of whatever comes next. Stop running, confront, and conquer!"

Jakeview

Member

Registered: 2004-12-28

Posts: 113

Re: In heterosexual porn,

>So guys just had to basically plump for whatever was on offer

I think it has more to do with catering to an audience. Men like us, who prefer to see the arousal and orgasm of women as the focus, are a minority. I truly believe most men out there still prefer to see women as objects to be used. How often does mainstream porn end in a facial? I'm so sick of seeing that! But they wouldn't make it if it didn't sell and it's a billion dollar industry.

Jo

Member

From: Germany

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 257

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Jake, you are so damned right...

---

L'éssentiel est invisible pour les yeux.

richard

Administrator

Registered: 2005-01-04

Posts: 692

Re: In heterosexual porn,

>So guys just had to basically plump for whatever was on offer

I think it has more to do with catering to an audience. Men like us, who prefer to see the arousal and orgasm of women as the focus, are a minority. I truly believe most men out there still prefer to see women as objects to be used. How often does mainstream porn end in a facial? I'm so sick of seeing that! But they wouldn't make it if it didn't sell and it's a billion dollar industry.

it's the cornflakes vs wheaties scenario.  You feed a kid corn flakes every morning for 10 years then one day you ask them what they want for breakfast - what are they gonna say?  In the music industry it's FM radio vs college stations.  Once people make the switch from mainstream, they never go back.

The whole reason abby winters started her site was because she couldn't find porn she liked, and the same here with us.  It staggers me that nobody in the porn indyustry for the past 20 years has made any real effort to find out what men like, much less some sort of formal study - something abby and I talked about doing a few years ago when people were telling us we wouldn't get an audience for these sites.  Now there's a thesis for an enterprising psych student!

msnevil

Member

Registered: 2005-01-03

Posts: 79

Re: In heterosexual porn,

1st) To the webmaster of this site. I got your gender wrong (gender, not name though. (Grin at Bishop)

I've been in the debate over at a another website. "proberly with the same persons". So I won't Rehash.

Except to say. "female centered oragasm" websites will never be the norm. More like "sugar frosted wheaties" then wheaties. Abby Face would  and could be on the "picture" of the wheaties box though. (insert "wink")

Ell

Member

From: Australia

Registered: 2005-01-11

Posts: 99

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

For sake of discussion I'll throw a few ideas down...perhaps consider them questions...

you see 10x male orgasms as female orgasms. why is this?

This sites Art, so it doesn't count.

Because the pop shot/money shot  is the signal for the masturbating male viewer  that he too should orgasm.

Because females may  generally require more stimulation than they get in a porn scene. How much pussy eating, clit playing, breast kissing or kissing of any kind do you see?

Because the viewer wants proof of the male's pleasure.

Because there are lots of folks with a love of semen.

Because the pop shot is a logical conclusion to a scene whereas a female orgasm isn't  the "end" of the action.

Because female orgasms can be quiet and seemingly uneventful and easily missed or hard to catch on film/video. Most directors don't spend much time filming reaction shots -- the woman's face, which is where we could "read" that she had an orgasm if one did occur. Difficult to tell if the focus is purely on pistonning flesh or disembodied cocks.

I think most mainstream het porn is made for porn hobbyists not the general populous, female or male. It does sell well though.:)

---

His eyes seem to lead him to where his mouth needs to be.

msnevil

Member

Registered: 2005-01-03

Posts: 79

Re: In heterosexual porn,

""""Because the pop shot/money shot  is the signal for the masturbating male viewer  that he too should orgasm."""""

But what about her needs? Is she but something to masturbate on?

""""Because females may  generally require more stimulation than they get in a porn scene. How much pussy eating, clit playing, breast kissing or kissing of any kind do you see?"""""

From what I have seen. Just enough to get her wet. If Kyjelly or vaselined condoms don't work.

""Because the viewer wants proof of the male's pleasure."""

Agian what about hers?

"""Because there are lots of folks with a love of semen."""

Or Famale pee.

"""Because the pop shot is a logical conclusion to a scene whereas a female orgasm isn't  the "end" of the action.""""

Is it? A respective lover takes care of her as well. Not use her as a object for his own lust.

""Because female orgasms can be quiet and seemingly uneventful and easily missed or hard to catch on film/video. Most directors don't spend much time filming reaction shots -- the woman's face, which is where we could "read" that she had an orgasm if one did occur. Difficult to tell if the focus is purely on pistonning flesh or disembodied cocks.""

There is many signs of a female orgasm. The fast breathing, the sigh, the facial thrush of neck and face, the tilting of the pelvis, the multiple contractions of the abdomen, the raising of the heel, the pelvic muscle twitching, the moan, etc.

But it doesn't produce "white" semen. Unless its squirting.

""I think most mainstream het porn is made for porn hobbyists not the general populous, female or male. It does sell well though.:)"""

What do the general populous want then?

PC elmo

Member

From: Somewhere in the U.S.A.

Registered: 2004-12-28

Posts: 272

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I don't think the general populous know what they want, so they let someone else decide for them.  Not all do, but enough.

Also, it's great to see such strong criticism of "established" porn and its expectations.  I couldn't agree more.

---

"There is always room for something more."

Bartholomew

Member

Registered: 2005-02-01

Posts: 5

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Porns main market does seem to be men . You have a very good point msnevil "What about women ?" Well lets hope in the real world away from huge cocks and plastic bits lovers are just that lovers . They care and respect each other . I think that bond is what can lead to real intimacy and great crazy good sex .I feel  Porn continually watched can give a misaligned view of what sex really is . People start to treat sex like a crazy sport or some kind of hunting ritual. In some ways i think porn is mans way of showing domination over women , and i hear you type "why would he feel a need to do that ?" good question . Feeling a bit inadequate possibilitly .Making unreal videos of how they wish it could be
I think this is a great site . It gives a realness and intimacy that porn lacks .It shows that we go somewhere and the feelings that are experienced . There are things we all crave more than just sex . Porn lacks reality. I think the general populous want to be held and loved . They just go a funny way to getting that .
Less porn .Less screaming oh my god .Less slaping and pissing and shiting . Less dominative ramming . More real sex . More caring close sex. More laughter and closeness and cuddles .More afterwards .

Last edited by Bartholomew (2005-02-01 15:43:16)

Jo

Member

From: Germany

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 257

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

There are things we all crave more than just sex . Porn lacks reality. I think the general populous want to be held and loved . They just go a funny way to getting that .

There´s a good book (*Eleven minutes* by Paulo Coelho) about the search for their wish to be held and loved and the different ways they go to reach that goal. A pity, that most people seem to have to go a long detour before they realize what they really want...

Porn in all its varieties may be a step on this way, but some (most?) will never do a step further...

---

L'éssentiel est invisible pour les yeux.

ruby

Member

Registered: 2005-01-06

Posts: 77

Re: In heterosexual porn,

yeah i agree that in a subconscious way men are affected by mainstream porn,

in that the 'ram it home' setting becomes the default

I have often had to remind men that I want to be touched, caressed etc in order to reach climax

With both my previous lovers they have tended to get lazy and just sorta resorted to the rub in into my arse version of foreplay

It makes it difficult, as the male ego is fragile!  You don’t wanna tell them they are doing the wrong thing, but you also don’t want to feel resentful that they don’t know how to heat you up too…………..

Previous I haven’t made the connection, but it does make sense!

Also, don’t forget the some women love semen too…. The cum on face technique is not necessarily bad…….it is of course if the girl isn’t into it

Bluesman

Member

Registered: 2005-02-27

Posts: 25

Re: In heterosexual porn,

We like 'couples' porn.  Andrew Blake and the like.  My wife is strongly bisexual, and LOVES a good lesbian scene...if it's a GOOD lesbian scene.  And he does some HOT movies, man! 

Most porn today is dreck.  Not even low-class trailer park batchelor parties are suitable for the crap they turn out today...but somebody buys it, I suppose.

theonlylittlewitch

Member

Registered: 2005-01-30

Posts: 5

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Why? Because it sales, If ''Caring cuddling real life good sex'' was what all the money was going into that is what they would make. It's all about what sales what makes them money. When it gets right down to it. Enough people pay for it? There going to keep making it.

theonlylittlewitch

Member

Registered: 2005-01-30

Posts: 5

Re: In heterosexual porn,

Sorry about the double post.

Last edited by theonlylittlewitch (2005-03-02 07:03:25)

TonyComstock

Member

From: New York

Registered: 2005-02-03

Posts: 15

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

It'a a mistake to think that porn as it exists today is purely a product of market forces, that it responds perfectly the the demands of the market, and that the porn that is a available is a perfect reflection of the market's desires.

There are other forces, social, and more importantly, legal that create strong barriers to the creation of sexually explicit imagery with mainstream production values and mainstream appeal.

-T.C.

---

Comstock Films

Jo

Member

From: Germany

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 257

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I don´t agree to T.C.´s opinion. If other forces (social or legal(!)) really would control the market mechanims, there wouldn´t be that huge number of porn sites. And, please, legality is a reason that would never hold back the makers to offer their products. There are other countries with much more open markets (and laws) than perhaps in US. BUT: it won´t sell there, if the demand was not there. And what is demanded most IS *dreck* and not *Caring cuddling real life good sex* or a page like this one. That´s a fact.

Last edited by Jo (2005-03-02 21:15:11)

---

L'éssentiel est invisible pour les yeux.

TonyComstock

Member

From: New York

Registered: 2005-02-03

Posts: 15

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

it's a billion dollar industry.

Is this so? Source?

-T.C.

---

Comstock Films

Justme

Member

Registered: 2005-01-20

Posts: 20

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I don´t agree to T.C.´s opinion. If other forces (social or legal(!)) really would control the market mechanims, there wouldn´t be that huge number of porn sites. And, please, legality is a reason that would never hold back the makers to offer their products. There are other countries with much more open markets (and laws) than perhaps in US. BUT: it won´t sell there, if the demand was not there. And what is demanded most IS *dreck* and not *Caring cuddling real life good sex* or a page like this one. That´s a fact.

Hmmm.. i'm not so sure about this. There definitely is a huge market for porn. And people buy what they can get and people buy what is offered cheap. So if the industry can sell this crap, why should they change anything?

But that doesn't mean people don't want better porn. But as long as the consumers of porn don't organize (which they will not do because most of them are not liberated enough to confess they consume porn) there is no way to force the industry to produce something else.

So you have to stick with what is offered.

Jo

Member

From: Germany

Registered: 2004-12-29

Posts: 257

Website

Re: In heterosexual porn,

I think, theres only few people who really want other porn. What do you think, why most (not all!) people consume porn? It´s the wish for fast satisfaction.

Some few other people want to see a aesthetic thing, something that also touches the soul. These few are mostly liberated enough to say they want other porn but the big mass is not. So you are right in this point. But some few won´t force the industry to change their habits.

I mean, why don´t this huge number of porn consumers join sites like this one? How much members has this page? Some hundred? Perhaps some few thousand? But what´s that against the millions of porn consumers? :x

Last edited by Jo (2005-03-03 10:43:10)

---

L'éssentiel est invisible pour les yeux.